PAUL WILSON: You’ve been a part of some iconic moments in pop culture. If you were to pick out a few lessons from The Office that you think can apply to any business, what would they be?

B.J. NOVAK: From Dunder Mifflin itself, to my disappointment, I keep learning that everything is about people. I wish things were about ideas and spirit. That has a lot to do with it -- that’s who people are. But the comedy of Dunder Mifflin and any lesson you can draw from it, it’s about who you hire. Those people make up more of your life and your work that you’d ever expect.

A lot of our audience either owns their own business or work with employers every day on recruiting and retention. When it comes to culture, how did you and your peers create a cohesive, collaborative team while working on The Office?

Most of my work was in the writers’ room. There was a lot of arguing behind the scenes, but there was a common goal. Everyone was very empowered about what the final product would be. That idea kept people motivated when your script was thrown out or your idea was rejected. When people become drones clicking on something without the shared goal, that’s when things can deteriorate.

Given your background in crafting narratives, what’s one piece of advice you would give to professionals who want to communicate more effectively, especially in tough or sensitive conversations?

Someone told me that a storytelling technique that is used in political ads, fairy tales, TV, etc. is that you need to show the threat AND the goal. It’s not just, “I’m in danger,” but, “If I get to safety, everything will be okay.” That’s a great plot for any TV show.

In addition to your work on TV and film, you’ve written both adult short stories and children’s books, which are vastly different genres. What do you enjoy most about each, and how does your approach to storytelling differ, depending on your audience?

I really think like the audience. For short story writing, I went to an extreme where I booked stage time. You never give up being a stand-up performer. I would book time and read the stories. I would see and feel when I was losing the crowd. The most valuable thing was just knowing you were going to perform. It made me so much more honest about the work. If you’re there and watching their faces glaze over, it’s a viscerally bad emotion.

The world is constantly shifting, including in industries like health care and employee benefits. What have you learned about embracing disruption in a way that sparks creativity and growth, rather than resistance?

I think that’s another version of thinking like the audience. Usually, we are using these technologies, too. So thinking about how I actually do this, how do I buy this product, use this service, look for shortcuts. If you think like the audience -- the customer -- you are that person too.

What episode of The Office would you go back and rewrite?

I would resist the urge to go back, because that’s how you blandify things. The first original one that I wrote was Diversity Day. I’m very proud of that one, but they don’t air that one on some channels. It would never get through today. That said, I’ve never met a person who said, “Hey, that really offended me.” I think people can feel the intent.

I’m sure you’ve faced setbacks in your career. What’s one failure that taught you the most, and how did it shape your approach to future challenges?

I fail constantly. I purposely internalize the failures but forget them. It’s hard for me to conjure them up even though I know there are too many to count. Instead, I just think about what I would do next time. I keep that excitement. There’s the goal and the threat. If I focus too much on the failure, I get in that spiral.

Like everyone, I know your industry has been impacted by the rise of AI and other technological changes. What advice do you have for professionals who need to adapt, especially when facing the unknown?

With AI -- and I think that’s the most extreme and dangerous example of this general principle -- I think that by asking the right questions can keep AI at bay for a few more years. I have a lot of fun playing around with Chat GPT and asking it to write an article just for my friends. The AI is very good, but it’s also a funny prompt. Writing an interesting prompt… I think it’s a metaphor: You are the one whose values and exact expression and exact editing is the person deciding what is being done hopefully for you instead of you.

Authenticity is something that many leaders are striving for today. In your work, how do you balance being authentic with the need to appeal to broad audiences?

Think like the audience. When you see braggy social media posts, are you impressed? Or is it obvious? You’re probably impressed by the authenticity and honesty that says something new about someone’s life.

What would impress you? It’s probably honesty and novelness.

You’ve often emphasized the importance of transparency in your work. How can leaders in any industry apply that principle to foster a more open, resilient, and adaptable organization?

On set, it came up in a way that was some of the best advice I ever got. I asked the director of photography, “What advice would you give to me as a director?” He said, “Direct the cameras like they’re actors.”

You don’t tell an actor, “Shout this line like this.” You tell them what the motivation is. You don’t give them a line reading, you give them the goal and get them on board. With cameras, you don’t just say, “Punch in.” You say, “This is where you can tell Pam is lying.” So now they’re part of the creative process.

I took that to every department. When you’re in the sound mix, you don’t just say, “I want this line louder.” When you clue everyone into what the goal is, you get much better work.

Is there a dream project that you haven’t yet had the chance to explore—whether in writing, television, or something else—that you’re particularly passionate about?

I have a lifelong dream of making a movie about philosophy that is really sexy and exciting. When I was a kid, I thought philosophers sounded like the most bad-ass brilliant people. I’d like to make a philosopher that was like Bradley Cooper action hero vibe.

What would you tell your younger self?

I think more, “What advice would my 20-year-old self give me?” He was confident and naive in a way that I would really like to get back to. As you get older, you grow farther from that childhood phase. Remember being a kid and you honestly thought that maybe you could fly? You’re close to that phase where you’re like, who knows what you can do? And even when you fail, you learn something from that.

What does your creative process look like for a new project?

I separate the phases for any project inspiration and execution. I carry a notebook with me at all times. When you’re walking on the beach, hanging out with friends, interesting ideas just come to you. Later, when it’s time to get to work, and I don’t feel inspired, I open up my notebook and just start typing what I wrote down.